Paul Turner’s Catholic Liturgy Blog

And with your spirit

Q:   We’re using the Catholicism series by Robert Barron.  In the one on Eucharist he says that the reason to say “And with your spirit” is because it’s a response to the persona of Christ in which the priest is acting.  Is that your read on the meaning of the change of translation?
A:    No, but it is an interpretation I’ve heard quite a bit, and it was the official stance of the USCCB. My position is that the greeting “The Lord be with you / And with your spirit” is based on biblical passages in the letters of Paul, where he says, “The Lord be with your spirit” to the entire community. Paul believed the whole community had spirit, as it had body, mind and soul. In the Order of Mass, the word “spirit” is not capitalized in Latin or in English. In my view it cannot refer to the Holy Spirit. I think the priest and people are basically saying the same thing to each other: “The Lord be with your spirit,” but the dialogue breaks it up for the sake of interest.

Unconfirmed Catholic at a Baptism

Q.  Can an unconfirmed Catholic serve as a Christian witness at a baptism?

A.   An unconfirmed Catholic is not qualified to be a godparent, so someone has to fulfill that role. There is no provision in the law for an unconfirmed Catholic serving as a Christian witness, but it is a logical alternative as long as someone else serves as the godparent. The unconfirmed Catholic could take part in the liturgy with the godparent and pose for photos, but the church record has to indicate one godparent. You could also encourage the unconfirmed Catholic to take the necessary steps to be confirmed.

Living together without marriage requesting sacraments

Q.  “We have a woman in RCIA with her daughter (who is 18 and not baptized).  The daughter decided to become catholic and so the mother is supporting her by coming to classes with her.  The mother is a baptized catholic but was never confirmed.  She lives with the man with whom she has 4 children including the daughter who decided to become catholic.  They were never married.  Now the mother wants to come back to the catholic church with her daughter at Easter vigil.  My question is can I confirm her at Easter?  Can she be confirmed by the Bishop when he does the Confirmation at the parish in May?  If she can be confirmed, can she receive Communion? And about her living conditions, what can I advise her?  I think the man is not interested in the faith or the church or marriage and they have a very happy life.”

 A.  In my parish, when I have a couple living together without marriage requesting sacraments (and we have lots of these), I ask for a pastoral visit with the couple. When they’re in my office, I ask for an explanation about why they are not married. I explain the beauty and importance of marriage in our church. And I ask if they’d consider marriage. I tell them I do not want to force anyone to get married, but if I can help them, I’d like to.
I would probably not request confirmation of the woman until the marriage situation was resolved. Same with offering communion.

Rite of Reconciliation Form II

Q.  Do you have any written words of wisdom regarding the Rite of Reconciliation Form II?  (where the penitent when confessing sins omits the other parts).

A.   I wrote a bulletin insert precisely on this topic in volume 25, No. 6 for Ministry and Liturgy. It’s part of the CD of bulletin inserts.
  • I’ve got one about people leaving the communal celebration early in 31/03.
  • A general one on reconciliation in 22/10.
  • And one on Senior Citizen confessions in 37/03

A New Altar

Q:  Suppose you have a church that is pretty seriously renovated and gets a new altar. But the parish starts celebrating Mass on the new altar prior to the dedication. Now the bishop is coming. What rite should they use? my understanding is that you cannot dedicate an altar once mass is being said on it (like there is no need to bless a chalice once you have used it for Mass).    The rite is a bit confusing – “What Would Paul Turner Do?“

A:  I’d go ahead and have the bishop do the full dedication as if nothing had happened. We celebrate mass on tables and benches in homes and prisons, and we never dedicate those objects for temporary use. I’d let the parish experience the whole blessing. It should change their appreciation of what that altar is for.

New RCIA position

Q: I have begun a new position in a parish where RCIA needs to be rethought. What materials have you written or do you recommend?
A: Here are links to my books on RCIA:

The HallelujahHighway: a History of the Catechumenate

When Other Christians Become Catholic

Celebrating Initiation

Catechumenate Answer Book

And here’s the talk I gave this fall at the FDLC meeting:

The Meaning of Adult  Initiation in Post-Vatican II America

RCIA and the Collect.

Q.   When the Rite of Acceptance is celebrated at Mass, what happens to the collect? 

A.    I think it’s just something that the framers of the RCIA didn’t think through. The Rite of Acceptance was surely designed to be celebrated apart from the mass. For example, the priest or deacon may wear a cope (48), but not a chasuble or dalmatic. However, at the end of the rite, the option for continuing with the liturgy of the eucharist is plainly appended (68).

In the Roman Missal, the various masses for Christian initiation begin with the Rite of Election, not with a Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumens. Again, just an indication that the missal never envisioned a collect would be needed because it thinks the Rite of Acceptance is a word service, not part of a eucharist.

Pastorally, I think there are many good reasons for celebrating the Rite of Acceptance at Sunday Mass with a congregation. In that event, either the concluding prayer (57) replaces the collect for the mass of the day, or the collect replaces the concluding prayer.